Why have workouts been made easier in the new Systm app?

I breezed through Shovel this morning. Now I know why. :slight_smile: Actually liked the effectiveness of completing the workout without praying for a flat tire (on a trainer…ha). Anyway, back to ERG sessions after about 18 months. Enjoying the new app very much.


Kudos to the changes. And coming from me, that’s huge.


Below are the intensity factors FOR ME on the old app vs new app. Keep in mind a few points.

First, the old app does not change projected IF for me regardless of how I change my 4dp workout settings. The new app, however, does appear to adjust them. For example, if I change my MAP up or down 20 watts the new app raises and lowers the IF. Maybe Coach Neal and the crew created a new IF formula to incorporate all 4 parts of 4DP? Regardless, you might find that your new intensity factors are different than mine.

Second, because the new IF factors are not directly related to only FTP like the old IF factors were, you can’t really judge how much easier the workout is (or if it is unchanged.) For example The Wretched for me dropped from .98 to .87. Seems like a huge change but maybe the numbers are different for others. It doesn’t bother me as I’ve never been able to finish The Wretched!! I’m a great test taker (Full Frontal) but my body could not take the resulting increases to my 4DP on most of the plans and left me kind of discouraged. Looking forward to see how I perform going forward. And if I want to crush myself I always have Full Frontal!

Video Old New
14 Vise Grips .93 .92
AVDP .96 .88
Angels .89 .88
Attacker .85 .85
Blender .88 .86
Blender Mini .90 .88
Butter .88 .87
Cadence Builds .61 .61
Cash Register .88 .87
Cobbler .81 .81
Defender .91 .91
Do as you’re told .90 .84
Elements of style .78 .76
Extra Shot 1.0 1.0
Fight Club .94 .85
GOAT .83 .83
Getting Away With It .78 .78
Half is Easy .90 .80
Hell Hath No Fury .89 .88
Igniter .79 .77
ISL Thin Air .83 .82
Joyride .92 .91
Kitchen Sink .84 .82
Local Hero .88 .87
Long Scream 1.0 .95
Nine Hammers .92 .91
Power Station .86 .86
Primers .75 .74
Recharger .62 .62
Revolver .93 .92
Revolver is Easy .95 .91
Suf Idol .92 .89
Standing Starts .68 .64
Tapers n/a .79
Team Scream .89 .88
The Bat .88 .87
TBTITW .90 .89
TBWIB .88 .85
The Chores .89 .88
The Cure .86 .85
The Downward Spiral .97 .91
The Hunted .84 .84
The Omnium .97 .86
The Rookie .93 .87
The Shovel .87 .85
The Tool Shed .92 .91
The Trick .94 .84
The Way Out .83 .83
The Wretched .98 .87
There is No Try .92 .90
Thin Air .83 .83
TGTTOS .72 .72
Told off by Angels .92 .87
Violator .88 .85
Who Dares .89 .87


The SUF numbers were calculated for a generic rider profile, very likely not yours. SYSTM uses your 4DP profile to do the calculation so will give you personalised IF and TSS. Because of this you can’t really compare the old (almost always wrong) numbers to the new as even unmodified workouts are likely to be different. And, getting it in because I have to, #TotallySillyScore :wink:

(An example, just to illustrate the point using everyones’ favourite, once impossible workout, Nine Hammers. SUF stated IF = 0.92. Actual SUF IF for me = 1.05. SYSTM IF for me = 0.98. SYSTM IF for Sturm = 0.91. All different, all largely meaningless - see Coach Neal’s comments)


Just did local hero on the SYSTM app. It was not any easier!!! I sufferd as much as I ever have!!! 😵‍💫


@JamesT ahh, Sir James, thanks that demystifies a few things for me.

I was previously anticipating only 23 SUF vids to have amended planned IFs in SYSTM, but this explains why pretty much all of them are now looking different.

I’ve been recording my actual Ave HR on each completed ride since retesting 4DP a few months back so was after the names of the 23 that had been adjusted so I know not to compare future Ave HR on those with my historic data.

It would be helpful if SYSTM could redraft this explainer to make this topic a fair bit clearer:


Did Blender yesterday, where the three sets of Pain Shakes, intervals in each set now have got slightly declining intensity instead of the same intensity for each interval. I believe this may have helped me avoid any death spirals.

I dare say the workout has been improved.


My favourite too Dafydd. Must be a Welsh thing.

One of my favourites too. Although, sorry, not Welsh.

For my (rather, er, individual :alien:) 4DP profile the IF is now 1.04. No complaints from me, it was 1.10 before the adjustments (and had been as high as 1.18 - by the targets, targets that I always ignore because it’s a track simulation and no power meters on the track… is my excuse).

If you want to see higher IF numbers then simply do the kilo, fun fun fun :sweat_smile:, on repeat and push your AC through the roof to where the lava clouds reside. That’ll massively skew your IF numbers and make you wish that this particular metric had been left in the back of a dusty cupboard rather than become some kind of “thing” :wink: . p.s. don’t get me started on Totally Silly Score :speak_no_evil: :grin:

But Sir @JamesT, what are your thoughts on the TSS metric?

Edit: you share that and I’ll share my thoughts on Big Mountain :wink:


Hah, I have a long and colourful Totally Silly Story about a Fictional Turquoise Porpoise and its hunt for the mythical “number of mistruth” but it’s been put on the shelf labelled Inappropriate Fiction so best I don’t share it here :dolphin: :wink:

And I’m not even going to kick the Big Mountain mole hill, guaranteed screaming toes for anyone doing that :speak_no_evil:


Oh Grunter no!!! I’d rather die. And I’m only half joking.


Someone’s left the dungeon door open again…

Guards, secure them for their own protection!


calmly picks up the nail club and uses it to pick rotten dragon flesh from under nails

They’re not going anywhere don’t worry


I’m a better pilot today than I was yesterday. I aspire to be a better pilot tomorrow than I am today.

It’s not about “not being the best from the very beginning.” It’s about cultivating a growth mindset in everything we do, personally and professionally. I’d be very cautious of anyone who decided he’d figured it all out at Age 30 and never changed anything after that.


Feel I need to confess to not being Welsh (except in user name) :pensive: Still a Celt if it’s any consolation 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿