SYSTM didn’t ban the flag, Wahoo did. For good reason. Legal liability is a nasty thing in this day and age. As to the aria, how many of us out here know the words to it? Not many and very few, if any would be insulted by it. as to the marching song of the German Nazi party, I think many of us would take extreme offense to it. BTW, I know German and listened to Hitler’s 1932 speeches. There is a present-day person who sounds, eirely, a lot like him.
At the risk of showing my age….
don’t mention the war
Heretic, I’d like to clarify an aspect of the conversation. Do you actually care about the arias in question being used in videos, or are you using them to make either/or a consistency/slippery slope argument?
talking context again: Horst Wessel’s aim was to establish a national dictatorship, he wrote the song around 1930 as a member of the NSDAP (German Nazi party) as an anthem for the brownshirt section. it’s still banned (among other Nazi propaganda) in Germany today. this has nothing to do with culture, whereas Verdi and his compositions have to be regarded in a wider cultural context in his time
Whether SYSTM or Wahoo banned the flag is a distinction without a difference. Wahoo owns SYSTM. Whatever one does is in the name of the other.
Not many know the words to the aria or the Horst Wessel Lied, or the original languages. That does not matter. LaDonna È Mobile is massively sexist. I would imagine that most women would find the lyrics to the aria insulting - women are fickle, they are always lying, whoever trusts them is miserable. The video could have certainly used the music without the words, because it is the music that provides the contrast in the workout.
@IsiSchneider_KoS: There are many who would argue that the opera, much less the aria, represents a patriarchal culture that should be eliminated. Culture is highly subjective, and the only reasonable discussions that can be had are with people who share some values.
Which is why, @AlexEllermann, Wahoo/SYSTM needs to formulate some set of guidelines to indicate what should be banned. As I have indicated, I have no problems with the operas, the old flag, nor would I want the Horst Wessel Lied to be used in a video. Since the goal of the rebranding is to expand the audience, without guidelines this issue is only going to get more problematic.
Fawlty Towers is available on video if you don’t get the reference folks.
Once when I was really fit, lean and racing really well (almost like a Belgian), I bought some white bibs. I’ve never worn them in public. I guess you do need to be world champion to wear them!!
No. Never white bibs.
But they looked so bright and shiny in the shop!!
I hear you, but I think the creation of comprehensive guidelines could be a massive undertaking.
Given that we’re talking about a fitness software enterprise (within a larger firm) and not a governmental organization, I’m comfortable with a guideline of “We’re trying not to be jerks.”
You do not need comprehensive guidelines, but “don’t be a jerk” will not work for any organization.
As we see in the discussion here, there are too many different definitions of what that means. For example, you can be prosecuted for certain speech in Canada or some European countries that would be legal in the United States.
Yes but to successfully prosecute, particularly in a cross cultural application, you would surely also need to prove intent.
Actually…perhaps the sexism ‘targets’ should have the final say on whether this particular Aria be removed. I.e a poll for the women of the forum/SYSTM to have the final say as to whether the Aria in question stays or goes.
Look outside of your cultural context, or even within this thread, there is no agreed upon definition of what a jerk is.
History is full of examples of where intent was easy to prove given the biases of the judges.
Who decides who the victims are?
Somebody who feels they are a target?
This is how this entire discussion got started.
I concur with Sir Alex. We have an actual documented “No #$@&heads” policy at work and it’s very effective.
With all due respect, there is no agreed upon definition of what offensive is. If any person/organization is going to try to eliminate anything that any one person might find offensive, then communication becomes either impossible, or nothing substantive ever gets discussed. I guarantee you I can find someone who finds this thread offensive.
If someone has an issue, let those charged with either correcting it or letting it stand make the decision, and they will suffer the consequences. No pun intended.
Too true! Even the red herring posts about white bibs in this thread could be construed as a metaphor for something darker by some! The fundamental communication issue is the written word lacks the nuance of oral communication, hence the risk of miscommunication increases.
Great thread though,very impressed by the level of sufferlandrian debate. As a very philosophical person I think grunter would be pleased!!