Sexism and racism in old videos

Sorry but I’d just counter, that its a 2007 film based on events (based on a true story) of events in 1980, I do wonder if the opening scene is set the expectation of the (real) mans character

Been a while since I watched it

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There usually are jokes about the welsh Chris, honestly I’m not worried about it. I come from a Rugby background and international rivalry is never a problem. We have to be careful that we dont lose a sense of humour about life. I use one rule if I feel offended which is usually to ask myself what is offensive and why. If it offends me personally or is it more widely offensive. Comedy should offend, it shouldn’t be offensive. :grin:

Welcome @Chris_Winfield. Glad to have you here and glad you feel comfortable raising these issues. I’m also glad you’re finding the workouts challenging and entertaining. It’s what they’ve been known for since the beginning.

I think you’ll find Sir @David.McQuillen.KoS and his team are very responsive to issues of sexism and racism in sport and have revisited vids in the past and re-edited objectionable content. Whether they ultimately end up editing this particular vid or not, you can rest assured that they’ll give your concerns serious consideration.

As for the rest of all y’all, remember, be kind :slight_smile:

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Hi, @Chris_Winfield, and welcome. It’s good to raise concerns, particularly as someone with fresh eyes. It’s hard to bear reflexive attacks, so good on you.

Now that you mention it, at 7:37 in ‘Recharger,’ I noticed (and laughed at) a bubble saying “This will get your spark back” which appears at the moment a young woman giving a presentation in an office leans toward the camera. My thought process went “Ha ha → guilt reflex → wondering whether it was intentional → deciding it probably wasn’t → figuring I was an edge case because I’m basically twelve → forgetting about it.”

Now that you mention it, however, perhaps it’s time to give that segment a very light edit. Just slide that bubble to the left or right by a second or two.

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I just “woke” up…did I miss something??

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I think this is the crux of the issue. I’m sure the guy didn’t mean to offend, he probably thought he was funny. At what point do we need to be aware and understand that our jokes can actually hurt people and at what point do we just need to man/woman up and crack on? For a large platform like Systm, it’s something you want to get right

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This is always the correct response when someone is being a insert inappropriate descriptive here

I’ve been told:
“Have you earned that nice bike?” - dropped him
"Why don’t more women ride, we like a bit of visual entertainment " - dropped him
“careful, don’t fall off that thing and ruin your makeup” (from a car driver) - dropped him as well. Note I don’t wear makeup and was covered in mud from a gravel ride at the time. I hate riding outside because I cop a LOT of abuse.

I’m female and believe me we live with sexism every single day and I have a very low tolerance and now go out of my way to call guys out over it. I haven’t ridden Local Hero in forever but will go back and do so. Don’t recall any sexist undertones but worth a revisit, likely was too busy chewing stem at the time. The Suf/Wahoo forums have always been a safe place online. Anyone who has been an idiot in the racism/sexism/generally being a complete and utter tool regard has been banned. I absolutely appreciate that men on here, not only spot these things, but feel uncomfortable about them and ask for them to be changed. Thank you!

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For those wondering about the reference that @Chris_Winfield mentioned, it’s right at the start in the description of the Sufferscale of this particular vid before the workout proper actually starts.

I agree it’s sexist. Not sure how easy it is to edit these vintage vids but I think if it could be done it ought to be.

I’m often not looking at the screen at that point in the vid. In any case, Grunter forgive me as I haven’t ridden Local Hero since March 31. 2018!!! I voluntarily present myself at flogging station #6. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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4 Easy and free like a S’landrian maiden

Yeah. That ought to be fixed.

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I’m Belgian. That’s my nationality, not my race.

I don’t remember being offended by anything in Local Hero.

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FWIW my interpretation of

4 - Easy and free like a S’Landrian maiden

was towards the adjective not the noun ….

maiden (adj): being or involving the first attempt or act of its kind

maiden (noun): an unmarried girl or young woman

As with almost every similar discussion around such topics so much relies upon context & intent, interpretation and conflation.

By example surely @Sir_Brian_M was best placed to interpret whether the FIB comment was meant to hurt or humour (he was there and heard the tone).

Since Sufferfest is so clearly centred around humour and irreverence my immediate interpretation lent towards the adjective not the noun … a SUF newbie being less likely to have been gripped by the full blown suffering bug.

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I think it is meaning a young woman but “easy and free” meaning relaxed and without troubles.

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As a Sufferlandrian matron, that is exactly how I took it :wink:

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Great discussion guys. I admit, in the early days of SUF, I made some SEXIST mistakes. Nothing was ill intended, of course, but they were still wrong and we’ve gone back through those early videos and cleaned things up. Seemed to have missed this one on Local Hero, though, and so will get onto that.

Since those early days, we’ve been a solid champion of equality in the sport and in our videos. We were the first corporate sponsor of Half the Road (the documentary on equality in cycling which you can find in our Inspiration collection) as well as a season-long prize for the UCI Women’s World Cup called ‘The Suffer Prize’ back in 2014 or 15 (can’t recall exactly when). Now we work hard to get more women’s footage into our videos and you’ll see more to come there in 2022.

As for RACISM. You will never, ever see that in our videos. Never has been there. Never will be. We abhor racism. Among other things, we sponsored the only all-black MTB team in the world, The ACE-Lesotho-Sufferfest MTB team, for five fantastic years, even getting one of our riders to the Olympics. Wahoo’s efforts with the Amani team (gravel racing – watch the Fursa video in Inspiration) as well as our support for @Coach.Neal.H 's Ride for Racial Justice follow in the same line.

As for poking fun at NATIONALITIES. Well, firstly I’ll just say that we take a jab at as many Nationalities as we can (the Dutch and French probably get the worst of it) – but we do it in the same way that all countries taunt other countries in any kind of National contest. We’re Sufferlandrians. We’re better than the -insert national identity here- and we’re going to let them know about it. It’s always light-hearted, never mean and spread around enough that we’re not really picking on any one country.

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Great words @David.McQuillen.KoS , as always.

I have to say that I always saw the aforementioned dig at the Belgians in an ironic way. I mean, they’re just so damn awesome it’s like they’re Sufferlandrians at heart anyway, but with more beer.

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We can fix that… meet me in the Nine Hammers tavern. (I think that’s what helped precipitate the events in JoyRide)

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Wait, there’s jokes in that video?

All I know is I black out after that ball field race at the start.

Someone needs to redo FF if this level of moral right/wrong contemplation is possible during that ride.

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This is the first answer in this thread that is actually a problem and actual negative behavior (sexism, patronizing)

The problem here is that a lot of men don’t understand this is unwanted behavior. It’s something a lot of guys just do without thinking (or thinking with the wrong part of the body)

I usually try to keep my ‘good advice’ to myself (unless asked for) and also call other guys out if I see this.

That being said, our behavior to women on the bike will always be different then towards other guys. More tolerant (letting them sit in without taking turns) or more stupid (not willing to be overtaking by women to assert dominance)

We are all different people, so instead of getting offended all the time: just say something, it’ll make you feel better (generally) and let other people know what it is you want/expect.

As a Belgian/Flemish, I thank you for this awesome comment. Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Schol :beers:

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We don’t want you to do this. Unless we’re the same class of person as guys who refuse to do any work up front, get a free tow and drop their exhausted working bunch on the finish line :face_with_symbols_over_mouth: when I’m racing, I will tow the men at 38km/h for my 30 second turn too

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