Kettlebell S&S with SUF

I’ve had shoulder issues for the last 4 years. I’ve tried everything to get it corrected. KBs are the only thing I’ve been able to lift over my head without pain in 4 years.

I started TGU 5 weeks ago and practiced with 15 then 20, then 25 lbs till I got the movement down solid.

I just ordered a 2 pood.

This is in 5 weeks of starting. 28kg/62lb…


What are the thoughts about doing a bit of KB after a Sufferfest session? I’m a big fan of KBs and Pavel.

I’ve been liking the addition of a few KB swings after each suffer session. I try to do 3x15 swings (32 kg) with a few pull ups in between sets.

It’s not meant to be a strength session but it seems to help my recovery.


I’ve actually found it best to do KB before riding as the swings help wake my HR up and get the blood flowing nicely.

Also, with the S&S being short in nature, it’s able to reside nicely in my doubles days.

KB, ride, then strength training specific body parts.

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That’s quick progress. You give us hope!

Typically you almost always want to do strength before cardio to get the most out of your strength, unless you’re doing low weight as some kind of cool down dynamic stretching.


True, but my rides right now are more endurance tempo, base. So not zapping energies before strength.

That, and it fits nicely into my mid-morning meeting schedule giving me more time in the afternoon for strength.

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Interesting. When you do lifting before a ride, can you still do a session like violator or nine hammers? I would have guessed your legs are cooked

Nice torture chamber there @SirAlexanderLee. Was interested to see you are wearing something on your lower arms. I’ve noticed that the bells hurt quite a lot against the bare skin when trying to keep my wrists straight in the first part of the get up. I presume this is because I have just started out and they will toughen over the next few weeks just like guitar fingers so. I presume you are wearing the lower arm guards as going heavier sooner must hurt more than my little 8kg does. Anyway. Gonna stick with the bare arms here while the weights are low and see if I can build up a tolerance.

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Nope. Would try to pair them with different types of workouts. Maybe Power Stations. Save 9H and Violator style videos for a different day.

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I don’t consider S&S true lifting - as in powerlifting. More like conditioning. I get 100swings and 10 get ups done in about 20 minutes. Add 5 minutes of warmup and cooldown and I’m practically just warmed up for the bike.

I would never do a full lifting session before one of those rides. I would also never do one of those rides before a heavy lifting session.

Real powerlifting and cycling don’t live on the same continuum. I’d argue that they really can’t. One is purely endurance focused, the other is explosive maximal power focused.

I only powerlifting in the off season and only for about 8-12 weeks to change things up.

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Yeah, they’re like compression sleeves.

Holy cow man, your a beast! TGU are a killer

I did my first 10 x 10 swings yesterday. Did 2 hand swings. I used the 12kg kb (max that I currently have) and 10 breezed by each set. The kb just flies up and weight felt a bit too light to stress me in any particular way. Was trying to concentrate on technique. After that finished I tried to do some 1 arm swings but couldn’t pack my shoulder correctly so stopped and left it at that. Did the warm up, the swings and yoga to cool down. Today, I didn’t expect to feel anything as I found it so easy but yet I can feel it all over. Pretty nice. I also have a niggle in my right knee so I think I need to concentrate on my tracking. I’ll stick with this 2H version until all that settles down and then try to figure out 1 arm swings before buying another KB.

As for the TGU, I have not really progressed. I usually get a cramp in my left hamstring when I try sweep it even with no weights. Would be a bit dangerous with weights as a result. I think I need to work on my hamstrings and hips a lot more and in the mean time, I’ll just build up strength on the pre-sweep phase with the 8kg KB.

My other issue is with 1 of the 2 stretching routines Pavel recommends for night time. The “QL Straddle”. Basically, when I raise my arm up in the straddle I can’t really bend anywhere let alone bend towards my toes. So I have quite a way to go to sort out a lot of flexibility problems. Need to find the right Yoga mix to help me. Currently I am doing “Basic Yoga Poses” everyday and today I just started “Hip Openers 1”.


I only do a few of Pavel’s stretches. I follow Abi for the rest. Solid!

For the TGU, I found Pavel’s book severely lacking in progression from initial roll to arm plant to sweeping the leg under.

Google Brazilian Jujitsu TGU. There’s a guy who shows it perfectly.

I had to modify the side movement a bit as the heavy weight is a bit much for my old shoulders. Only modified it a little so I can transition faster. However, practice your modifications with light weight before going heavier. Nothing will get your attention like 62lbs over your head that’s moving in an unplanned direction.

For the swings, I track in a bit of a wide squat stance. With my one handed, I track the same but my loaded side is pointed a bit wide. Again, last thing I want is 62lbs of iron hitting me.

You have to lock your lat tighter on the single swing. See my initial pull from ground below. I’d also hike singles back deeper because you’ll need more inertia from your hip explosion to get that level at the top.

I also highly suggest you video yourself so you know what needs correction immediately.

This was one handed 28kg today. 32kg on order.


Thanks for that @SirAlexanderLee . You are indeed beastly :upside_down_face: Some good advice in there which I shall digest. I’ll check out that video you mentioned. I’m going to get the TGU sorted with a shoe first until I have that down. I’m not there yet by a long shot. I tend to cramp in my left hamstring under duress. Was doing the hip openers 1 again today and cramped up with trying the one legged downward dog with the left leg in the air. Anyway, I’ll get that sorted as a priority and continue my TGU journey.

Did my second day of 100 two handed swings this morning before an easy spin. It definitely went better today. There is a lot of adjustments going on though I am sure between swings that I have to nail better. I do plan on taking a video to see what it all looks like so definitely will be doing that. Pretty happy so far with the swing. Finding it a bit easy (two handed) but am just going to stick with the weight until I own it with 1 handed swings also. I expect this will take a few weeks. Onwards!


Yeah, I spent the first two weeks really practicing - a lot. And videoing - a lot. I still video, but just to make sure form is locked, so not every set now.

You’ll know when you’re ready for 1H because you’ll just be zinging the 2H.

From week 3-4 I kept adding a little weight but kept practicing and then moved to every day.

Week 5 I went with the biggest I had at the time - 24kg and quickly realized I needed more, but wasn’t comfortable with an 8kg jump on TGU. So glad I did what I did as I am owning the 28kg on swings but find some days I’m not in the right mental state to go 28kg on TGU.

So, definitely take your time on this and move at a pace you are comfortable with and can own.

With your leg cramping, tell me about your carb intake and sodium/electrolyte intake vs your normal routine and riding. Do you cramp on the bike often, are you a heavy sweater, how intense are your rides?


Along with some extra reinforced concrete for your floor ……

32kg …. like that’s enough to bust my back trying to lift two handed …



I’ve also been doing my TGU with a shoe. Seems natural as a movement to me but maybe I’m doing it wildly wrong. Shall film it and see. If it still seems right will progress to the 10kg kettlebell

10x10 of 10kg feels very light now so I’ll jump to the 16kg next.


When I cramp on the bike its mostly mid summer (in Japan) and I’ve destroyed myself on several climbs over a long distance (say over 100km). When I get home from a ride like that I usually can expect random cramps during the day unless I walk it out also. I’m not really a heavy sweater or don’t usually have salt stains. I do take electrolytes and usually try eat a lot. I usually also have a recovery drink. I can get cramps deep in my legs like what seems to be inner hamstrings or calves (or is that calfs?).

However, my TGU sweep/yoga hamstring cramp is more after a full night sleep. Usually in my left leg also. I got it today also with the “StrongFirst Hip Bridge” when squeezing the hell out of my glutes/abs it just sneaks in. I didn’t actually perform any full TGU today after that so can’t tell yet if it is just related to lack of warmup and my messed up tight body. I suspect that it might be. In truth, I have never really warmed up for anything that I have done (or stretched) and I guess now as I get older I’m figuring out that I need to. I’ll try practice some weightless TGU’s tomorrow with a good warmup to see what happens. Mostly trying to nail the swing first and get used to the weights.

Back to KBs, I did another 100 swings today. Went well again. I tried to mix in some H2H also and those went ok but when I tried to switch it up to single hand, I found myself too loose again shoulder wise. I need to pack the lats but I don’t seem to have found them yet. The swing is hard to get right as its not really a slow movement and as you are thinking about how to correct something, you either adjust something else incorrectly or the 10 reps are complete. I’ll keep chasing that and yeah. I need to figure out how to video it too. Practice, practice.

I also did 20 x TGU to elbow (first part) with 8kg again today. Whatever I did, it hurt my bony wrists much less today.

Stupid question… you know the way the bell has a flat bottom and a flat side usually with the weight engraved on it. Does the flat side, point outwards from your arm on the tgu or the inside? I think pointing the flat part out, might hurt less and that might be what I did different today. Not sure though. I haven’t seen that discussed anywhere in the book.

Incidentally, I think I could do what I am doing almost everyday and its not affecting any of the bike training. Maybe when the weights get up that will change but for now, it’s very workable and makes me feel good.

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@DameLisa - I think it probably should feel natural… I’m just a bit weird :slight_smile: You are amazing if you can do 1 TGU with 10kg. Go for it. Be amazing. I’ll be chasing you.