Afternoon All, hope your all having a good weekend.
So 56 yr old male 6 and half weeks into all purpose road. Did Half Monty last Sunday Ftp improved to 210 from 202. I have a had a disrupted week having bought a new Elite Suito enjoying using erg mode rather then the old direct drive dumb trainer. I the. Mixed up my days and did a 90 min outdoor ride on rest day. Cadence builds on Thursday, smashed it, I love cadence builds. But yesterday Nine Hammers was far too difficult for me, I finished it but could only get halfway through the intervals. I was absolutely gutted and was pretty miserable, having got off the bike actually feeling that I hadn’t tried hard enough! So went to bed thinking that I would do Defender today at 85%. However I’m not feeling it in my legs today and maybe mentally I’m frightened of failing again. So my question is: do you think HM score could now be a bit false having changed to a proper trainer (I have to admit everything does seem harder) shall I carry on today with defender or possibly change rest day to today? Or maybe like Theresa at the Minions suggested, do the HM again to get accurate score on the new trainer and if so how do I fit that into this weeks schedule.
One thing that is cheery is seeing my 10 year old grandson for first time in six months and having a slow spin out locally with him.
Confused of West Sussex.
Afternoon All, hope your all having a good weekend.
Ironically, I am also 56 yr old male with SUITO Trainer. Actually, I have two should be identical ELite Suito trainers, one in US and one in Israel, where I leave. I found that although it is the same trainers, in US it is much easier for me. I think the numbers are different between two devices in about 2-3%. If you change the trainer, pretty sure the readings are different. IMO Half Monty must to be done on the new trainer.
Hello Mike Sh.
Very kind of you to reply thank you.
I think you may be right. What I will probably do is take today as a rest day and hope in passing that one of the wonderful coaches happens to see my post or indeed someone much more knowledgeable than me and can advise me about timing of Half Monty and rest of plan.
Onwards and Upwards
I think that’s right - significant change of equipment = retest.
Looks like we might have a Sufferlandrian Straw Poll
Yup - you’ve nailed it already - dumb trainer to smart trainer (wheel off direct drive too) is a major change.
I’d be tempted to get used to the new trainer (still working out and so on if you’re currently training hard) and then set up a FF prep week. Do not compare with the old numbers when you do either - the ‘number’ is there to ensure you can train effectively, so whatever the new sert are using rhe Suito, you’re sorted.
Sadly - if there was one workout that would ‘catch you out’ as it were it’d be something super hard like NH. The difference can be quite different between the two trainer types (and lets say one measures 5% or more higher than the other in its own measurement algorithm, then having a MAP 5% out (or even more) would be a killer
HM will obvs give you a sense of where you are on the new trainer as well. Personally i think you’ll get more out of a FF (proper prep week as well)
Martin thanks for the Message. Believe me FF has been on my mind for ages, it would be great to get my rider type and training nailed down, possibly even changing from all purpose road, although I really enjoy the outside zone 2 rides and attacking the odd short incline. I think though that including what’s written on these forums FF has a tendency to come across as out of reach for someone like me. I do like the look of the preparation week!
My suggestion (and I am not by any means a coach or someone who knows everything ).
Take the rest day and do not beat yourself up too much. Changing the trainer will definitely play a role but the numbers did not jump significantly.
Fitness is built during the “off days” and going from a dumb trainer with little structure (from a training point of view) over to a structured workout with a smart trainer will hurt . Good luck and all the best
Just to be clear to all, the dumb trainer was a direct drive using a crank mounted precision power meter but I appreciate that numbers will be different and that I need to trust results from the new one. I agree that getting used to erg mode surely plays a factor… Im leaning towards the FF and starting preparation week tomorrow
Hey Mike – As others have said, do either FF or Half Monty. But it sounds like you put an awful lot of pressure on yourself so I’d recommend approaching them as just another workout – after all, testing is training and no matter what your results are, you’ll get a great workout in. You might also want to explore some of the sessions in the Mental Training Programme – I’d suggest listening to the Positive Thinking modules…they might help you with some of that fear of failure you’re experiencing (which is pretty normal for all of us driven individuals).
How can anybody find nine hammer hard??? said no one ever. Welcome to the club . Every time a workout thrashes you, you learn something about yourself .
Hi @spoons52! Sounds like there are couple of things that would be helpful. With a new trainer, you are effectively comparing apples to oranges in terms of power from one device to another. While they might both be with 1-2%, that could be enough of a shift to significantly impact your values. As was suggested, completing Full Frontal would give you the most up-to-date values for your training (as well as rider type info), though Half Monty on the new trainer would also provide value.
All that being said, most everyone will be nearly maximally challenged to complete Nine Hammers. Its a workout that really can only be completed at 100% intensity if you are well rested and high motivated. If you are anything less than both of those, then being able to complete it is perfectly normal.
When you’re unable to finish a workout, there’s no need to try and “make up for lost effort” or anything like that. Just move forward. If you have several days in a row where you can not completed what is planned, then it’s a signal that you likely need some more rest and recovery before getting back into your normally scheduled workouts. And that’s okay.
There’s never any shame or bad feelings that should be associated with listening to your body, backing off before moving forward. Think of it like driving a manual car - you need to push in the clutch and coast a little bit before you can put it into another gear.
Happy riding and hope that helps!
Thank you coach so much for reply. Below is what I was planning:
Would welcome your thoughts. To that end I am having seconds day rest today to get that Nine Hammers out of my system. Then for one week from tomorrow I was thinking I should do a mixture of workouts testing All four disciplines MAP, AC, NM and FTP and using ERG and Level mode, Something like, The Chores, Cadence Builds and holds, Who Dares, Violater and possibly even AVDP (I remember being on a massive high when I completed that) plus throw in zone 1/2 outdoor ride. days rest then start the FF Prep week. It would be amazing I think to have the real 4DP and have my training properly coordinated. I work night shifts from home so one thing I do have is time to ride and train. I am also starting Yoga Plan.
Hi Simon - I wouldn’t necessarily ride those sessions listed back to back to back, at most I might consider two of them then an active recovery ride or rest day, or better yet a more intense session followed by a rest day or recovery spin would also work well. It would probably take 2-weeks to get through all of those listed sessions in a combination of erg and level mode. Then a couple days rest would be good and the Full Frontal /Half Monty Double 1-Week plan would be great to get both tests complete (doing Half Monty before Full Frontal gives you a really good MAP target to use in Full Frontal 4 days later).
so if im starting tomorrow , something easy then an intense session and recovery spin over the course of the week followed by the Double 1 week plan.
Yes - that would be a good plan!
Thanks again for all tips, advice and suggestions. So halfway through Double 1 Week Plan incorporating yoga too and I’m feeling good. Half Monty numbers were quite a bit down but I’m used to the new trainer now and gave it my all so we are where we are. Now trying to get my unfortunately compromised brain around the strategies for FF on Sunday. I’m reading and rereading all the threads on here but would like to ask maybe an all too simple question! For the 5 minute effort should I start at my MAP score or just below and build up to it and hold or even go above if possible.
If you’re getting your head around new lower numbers on a new set up, I’d be wary of going out too hard. I’d start off a little conservative and reassess after 2 mins. If you’re brain is able to think at reassess then you’re obviously going too easy so pick the pace up, other wise just suffer to the end! Your HM results should give you a good idea of what your MAP will be.
Hi @spoons52 Simon.
This is a really hard one for us to gauge. Suggestion:
If during your HM you ended up with as high a heart rate as you ever see during that ramp and therefore ended up with an approximate LTHR and so on.
Then I’d start at around the suggested HM numbers sir.
It’s so tricky. I’m only suggesting that as a guide, as HM is so short and sharp, sometimes it’s hard to tell when I do it myself if I’ve been able to work as hard as I can (this is my own experience) and I have evidence from the days of testing this workout that my power numbers are about right if I’m bouncing off the highest HR I typically see in workouts (in my case getting within 5-7 of Max) - I assume that’s because the HR gets up there properly if I’m rested enough and prepped enough.
If I don’t hit those HR heights then I also see lower power numbers and subsequently broken ftp and LTHR numbers.
Believe it or not im actually looking forward to it